Action Sports Cartel

I take a lot of mountain bike dh race photos and sell the downloads to racers for personal use. It's about the worst financial venture I've ever undertaken, but I'm out there having fun shooting anyways and this is more for pocket money than mortgage payment. My shots are getting more popular these days and racers are showing them to their sponsors. It seems the sponsors/bike companies are always looking for freebies.

I've had a few of these recently, it goes a little something like this. The names have been altered to hide their lame-ass identities.

Hi Dave!
I contacted you shortly after the xxxx Race about possibly using one of your photos. I ride for xxxxx Bikes and they are looking for photos to put in the 2010 Catalog. A photo you took from the xxx race of me would be a great addition to the catalog. xxxxx Bikes doesn't have enough money to pay for photos, but it would be wonderful exposure for you.There will be over 100,000 copies printed and sent all around the world.
Let me know what you think and if you are interested.
I look forward to hearing from you soon.

xxxxx


my reply usually goes something like this

Sorry xxxxxx, that's not how the photography business (or any business for
that matter) works.

Pictures cost money, just like the paper that the catalog is printed on.

Maybe xxxxx Bikes can give me a bike to ride for free, it would be wonderful
exposure for them.

That's meant to be a little tongue in cheek

Regards,
Dave Mackie

Is this pretty common?

Honestly, I wouldn't bet so snarky. Sure, they're taking a bullshit approach, but you could simply explain it in layman's terms (my time, investment etc) and go on to say that you would be happy to discuss it directly with the company if they could provide contact. Simply put, a lot of people (riders included) don't understand the photo business and might take offense to that kind of response. If the company can afford 100k catalogs, they certainly have money for photos, they're just trying to get it free. I wouldn't be surprised if it lead to a sale eventually with a company that size if you are polite and businesslike in your correspondence.

colin wiseman wrote:
Honestly, I wouldn't bet so snarky. Sure, they're taking a bullshit approach, but you could simply explain it in layman's terms (my time, investment etc) and go on to say that you would be happy to discuss it directly with the company if they could provide contact. Simply put, a lot of people (riders included) don't understand the photo business and might take offense to that kind of response. If the company can afford 100k catalogs, they certainly have money for photos, they're just trying to get it free. I wouldn't be surprised if it lead to a sale eventually with a company that size if you are polite and businesslike in your correspondence.

Oh I explained all that you described in the first email this racer sent me right after the race, including that I'd be happy to discuss useage rates with the company. This is the second email asking for the same thing, just a couple of months later.

I always stay professional despite an insulting email directed at me, I make sure that I never burn any bridges. First thing you need to do, is just tell the rider to get either his team manager, or someone at the company to contact you, so that you're not going through a 2nd party.

Yes, this racer first contacted me after seeing the race shot on my sales site and asked if they could use it on their sponsors website. I replied that my photos on the site were available for personal use only, and if their sponsor wanted to use it they could contact me with useage details and I'd give them a quote.

I never got a reply from the racer or sponsor.

This last email is about 2 months later.

I did send another email to the racer last night after reading the comments here explaining that I wasn't intending to be snarky and explained the problems that photographers have with companies that have enough money to make 100,000 catalogs but have no money to buy photos for content. It's not that they have no money it's just that they don't want to spend it. Further, when a photographer gives a photo away, the rider benefits from their sponsorship, the company benefits with product sales and the photographer that provided the picture gets absolutely nothing but the exposure as being the guy that gives away photos for free.

They replied, "no problem, I have lots of other options anyways"

At least they're asking- there were plenty of "look what i found" stories on W&W...

As a rider and not a photographer I can't really hate on the guy for trying, gotta hustle to get yourself out there these days. Of course he should understand when you explain why you're not going to do it... Hopefully his other options aren't undercutters.


Seems like companies are always going to try the 'exposure' factor...before offering gear...before hopefully actually purchasing.

Stick to your guns...

Jp Bergeron wrote:


Stick to your guns...


I fully intend to. I've never sold a photo for commercial use yet, and this is a hobby not a career for me but I'm not about to start off wrong.

I did once use a photo to pay for some work I had done, and got scathed on the old W&W so I won't be doing that again any time soon.

it's always good to see people who have learned something and are putting it to use from the forums!

I was killing time at work today browsing e-mails from crazy people, and well this one surely counts!!

seems very appropriate here emailsfromcrazypeople.com/2009/08/05/get...-tell-ya-no-respect/

I was a bit different recently in regards to photos to companies for free.

I am a DH racer. I am currently sponsored by a big company with 4 smaller companies underneath it so I know for a fact that they have cash to pay.

Anyways...A friend of mine and an incredible pro racer is riding a brand new 2010 product, only one out there right now. I get a bunch of shots of him at a race a few weeks ago and do the usual, low res, this is for personal use garbage. He gets ahold of me and asks if the sponsor can use it for catalogs and for a full size interbike ad.

I said yes, finally some exposure again after being away for a few years. I immediately say yes and send the files. As soon as I sent the files I was like, "OH SH!T" I just gave away free images to a big company, where is my piece of the pie.

Like I said, I have ridden for this company for years and I have a great sponsorship deal going so I felt a little better about giving them away for free, after all, they have been giving me product at a huge discount for years. Kind of a payback so to speak.

I do know for a fact that I will be getting another email from said company in a day, a month, a year, etc asking for free images and then complaining because I once gave them images for free. I know that and I take that responsibility.

Never let someone degrade what you do as something easy and that anyone else can do it, "all you have to do is point and click". Like said earlier, there are so many people that don't know and/or don't appreciate what you do. Just keep producing amazing images and stick to you game.

I worked with Joe Mcnally a few years ago and when discussing this exact topic he told me that he still gets companies that try to squeeze images out of him for free or for some discounted goods. Amazing. 30+ years in the industry and worked with almost every top magazine on the new stands today and he still gets this crap.

Only trade images for FREE product that is of the same value as said images. That way you can ebay that and get some cash or you have some nice gear. MAKE SURE to get all agreements and arrangements in writing or in word, recorded. The Iphone is my best friend with the voice recorder option.