Action Sports Cartel

hey everyone,
I've been reached earlier today by someone at Samsung,
They want to use a still from a sequence I had in Updown magazine recently,
They want to do a banner on updownmagazine.com for a period time of 6 months,
They said the banner would be used only on updown magazine website.

I don't have much experience with that kind of advertising ( Web)
And so I don't have much idea on the value of this,

Can someone help me out with this as I want what it's worth,

Many thanks,

Alex

hey Alex,

I know a lot of people go by photoquote and other software or even website calculators, but I don't let them dictate my price in the end because they never take who the client is into the equation. having said that would suggest one of them as a point of reference from where to go with your price.

What I've learned from some experienced people in the business is even for the same job, if your client is a small restaurant, then you price it for a small restaurant. If your client's McDonalds, then price it for McDonalds. This isnt taking advantage, its pretty fair actually. The way you're gonna understand what you're worth for them is try to picture how much revenue a small restaurant expects to get from a banner with your photo and how much McDonalds expects.

In the end though, its up to you. A website banner, I have no clue how much that's worth, but dont forget Samsung's a big fish.

hope this helps a little.

That's not the point,
It's about where they will use your ad and for how long
And in this case, they want to use it for only one website for a period time of 6 months,
I want to know the real value of that,

I don't want to make a bad reputation with Samsung and neither with any other client.

I still understand what your saying buddy but you gotta be fair in this world.

would 850$ be fair?

Alex, i guess my point didnt get across, but that was naive of me to think I could explain myself in one thread and have it all clear.

I understand where you're coming from but let me get things straight.

I know usage is very important. Actually, usage in commercial photography and advertising is the financial cornerstone of the industry. It's a totally different ballgame for portrait and wedding photographers, but in this case usage is all that matters, and usage is divided into 5 categories: time, geography, media, client, and exclusivity. Except for the last one that can be excluded in some cases, all other 4 are equally important, and yes who your client is matters a lot! This system of usage and copyright laws were created in the fairest intent that the photographer is rightfully compensated and the client didnt have to pay a dime over what they needed to, and the only way you're going to be fair to them and them to you is by considering all 4 when you make your price. Im not here to lecture you on how you work, but this is valuable knowledge that ive been gaining from the past months of studying business management under some pretty big and veteran commercial shooters.

I'll use food photography again as an example cause its easy to visualize, but ask a photographer that has an assignment to shoot the entire menu for a local restaurant and then has the exact same assignment, equal in every single way, for Denny's or Boston Pizza if they'll charge the same. Do you think its even right of him to charge the same? It's like if you quoted 10 grand to shoot a portrait for a local skate shop or instead quoted $500 to shoot a portrait for Red Bull cause they're both portraits. Overpricing wont get you jobs, but undercutting yourself will get you even less. In commercial photography, if you're way under the quote margin that other photographers are quoting for the same job, they will certainly get the job over you, cause client's are just going to think you dont know what you're doing. At that point there are two different clients: ones who will not take the risk of using you for cheaper, or others who will take advantage of you, and once they take advantage of you, they always will, just like that giving stuff away for free talk.

Again, i am not implying what you're doing is a wrong move, i am not saying youre price is low and you should get them for all they got since its samsung and not shmangsung. in your case you're only charging usage fees since you already have the photo, so no day rate or production cost, so its simpler to put a price on it, but really you're the only one that can dictate what your work is worth. All im saying is think of what I said here and i hope that can help you shape a fair price for both you and whoever your client is in the future.

good luck buddy

does no one else have something to say? cmon

Yeah I totally understand what your saying and all what you said sounds good to me,
but in this case, it's a photo from last winter so just like you said I didn't have any production fees for doing this ad,
As for Samsung, I want to charge them the real value of my work ( Single non-exclusive use, web banner, 3 months, up to 1000 visitors a day, english language-wide)
The only thing I was saying is that I won't ask them twice what it's worth only because they are Samsung you know...
I don't want to get undercut but I don't want to overprice either, I want to get paid the real value of my work.

I'm sure we understand each other
I think the same way you do,

Thanks for replying

I wouldn't limit to just those things that go into the value of the photos.

I doubt you didn't have production fees; did you use a camera? oh yeah, you paid for that. Now any photo has to be taken with a camera so that sorta negates itself, but did you use a ton of equipment that other photog might not have? did you use 3 PWs and strobes? There is value in that.

The other part is uniqueness. Is the shot a picture that they really want and can't find anywhere else?
is it a carve on a groomer, or a pow sunset shot? there is value in the quality of the shot; can they go to a stock house and get it cheap?

Reuben, I dont think either Alex or I were claiming usage is the only value that you should base your photo's price on, but I think in this case usage is all he should charge.

Most of us invest a lot of money into our nifty toys, but if your photo was self-assigned, with noone down your neck telling you they want this photo that way with this light, then I dont agree in charging them production costs. We often argue that if it werent for that setup we wouldnt have been able to get the shot as great as it turned out, but ultimately the photo's done and it was your choice if you wanted to use 10 flashes, 15 PWs and a roll of Velvia 50 as a scarf.

Your investment should either be calculated into your day rate or production costs (if you chose to call them equipment rentals or costs), whichever way you like working. As long as you're fair about what you use (dont go charging $5,000 worth of lighting equipment and show up with 2 vivitar 283's and 2 pw's, people will trust you and wont bother with receipts.

Your point about uniqueness is interesting, but I'm still not sure if I'd include that in Alex's case. If he feels like there's potential resale value for being a great shot, maybe we could talk about exclusivity, but I dont know.

I wanted to make sure those points were in this thread, as many other readers might be looking at this and learning a lot already, i didn't want them to miss some important ideas behind it.
I agree with everything you said, we all have pricy toys. but if for some reason the photograph is a result of something above and beyond what should be expected then it should be reflected in the price